On Thursday nights friends come over for coffee, refreshments and thoughtful conversation. Last night, JTB led us in a discussion on the link and sometimes disconnect between contemplation and action. At one point in the discussion she read a quote to us that intrigued me:
In order to do good, you must be good.
What do you think about that quote? Is it right thinking? Or is it off? If it is off, then what is a more accurate way of saying that? If it is right thinking, why?
(JTB, could you supply us with the author and context of quote?)
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While we wait for JTB, I’ll submit my first reaction. Reminds me of lessons I used to get from a guy named Lance–Theology first, then ethics. Who is God? What is He like? Who am I in relation to Him? How, then, am I to live?
Can someone not unwittingly/unpurposefully “do good”? If so, then it stands to reason that the person doesn’t necessarily have to be “good” themselves. I’m more interested in what a person has to do/be to qualify as a “good” person.
“We must be good before we can do good; be real before we can accomplish real things.”
Evelyn Underhill, The Life of the Spirit and the Life of Today
I’m not sure I’m entirely on board with it…particularly the preceding sentence, “Again and again it has been proved that those who aim at God do better work than those who start with the declared intention of benefiting their fellow-men.” I’m pretty sure I’ve known some “righteous pagans” who put some pious Christians to shame…
And I think the ? after “friday fun” is probably about right for this discussion…is this fun?
I disagree with the quote. And I’m with Kenny on: what qualifies one as good? I think there is potential that doing good can create an environment where the do-er is able to change and learn - and therefore be a better person. Perhaps the statement should read, “We do not have to be good before we can do good; however, the more pure our intentions are, the more effective our actions can be for others.”
This could also bring about the question of, “What is considered ‘doing good’?” Doing good to one person maybe simple, common decency to another. It brings us to judging the actions and spirit of a person. We are unable to accurately do this.
I don’t agree. People can do good whether they are good or bad. John Wayne Gacy was a respected individual in his community until they found out he was a serial killer. But, he was respected because he did good. He did good to get to the bad though.
I think the statement should apply to a person personally. For example, are you doing good because you have an ulterior motive? Are you doing good so people will think better of you or because you truly want to? Are you being real and true to yourself? Do you practice altruism when being good?
I personally feel I can not accomplish real self growth and evolution unless I am true to myself. Honest with myself about how I feel and passionate about the good I want to inflict! But, I still like to be bad sometimes…. Especially on Girls night out!
Does this include animals? Someone needs to talk to that nutty dog my neighbors just got!!! I think he’s bad!
Not sure what to make of this quote. My motto is think less party more… Life is just more fun that way. Thinking is over rated
But regardless of the motive, ulterior or otherwise, if a “good” act is being performed, then it is still a “good” act. If your action benefits another while still benefiting yourself, you are still benefiting the other.
I like the quote and I agree with it (even though Google only shows that quote appearing on ccfb.wordpress.com). It sparks a few thoughts. It reminds me of some of Jesus’ comments about white-washed tombs. Jesus was getting at the need for us to be revised or redeemed from the inside/out. He goes on to say that only God is good. We later learn that “goodness” is one of the outcomes of the Holy Spirit.
So, I believe that when we see good happening out in the world it is in some way a result of God’s goodness working through someone who has a bit of goodness in them as well. As a Christian I want to name that goodness within my friends for what it is, evidence of God’s presence. This can happen in the life of a Christian, a Buddhist, an Agnostic but I believe it happens with it’s greatest potency within the life of someone who has given themselves over to Jesus.