A couple of my friends from Texas and I exchanged some recent e-mails regarding the presidential race. We’re all pretty different politically speaking which makes our e-conversations fun and robust. I laugh at their supercilious sentiments and they roll their eyes at my pompous platitudes.
In our most recent exchange, one of my friends said he was disenchanted with it all and is pretty sure that we’re being hoodwinked by both republicans and democrats. (Yep, he’s a Ron Paul kind of guy.) My other friend is a pro-lifer and will vote with that primarily in mind. Me? I lean left but I can’t seem to come down on any one candidate. Because of my indecision, I’m extremely interested in what’s going on right now. But as I observe and as I listen I can’t help but be reminded that the underlying principles that all of these candidates are working with and towards are not of God.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating for a Christian society as Christianity has never, ever, done well while occupying the seat of power. I’m just saying that the Kingdom of God that Jesus introduces us to is never going to be fulfilled through rulers, kings or presidents and so there is a part of me that is like my friend, I’m disenchanted with it all.
No need to worry my politically charged friends, I’ll vote when the time comes. I’m not so disenchanted that inaction will become my new modus operandi. But I do realize as I continue to immerse myself in God’s Word that we here in America are far from realizing his Kingdom. In fact, I’m not even sure we would recognize it if it hit us in the face.
Welcome to the blog of Joe Hays, minister for Christ's Church for Brooklyn. We are a loving community of believers who seek to be the hands and feet of Christ, in service to our neighbors in Boerum Hill, Brooklyn and beyond.
I think you’re dead on with that last sentence you wrote. I’m certain we see Christ everday in the people we encounter, yet don’t even realize it or worse, realize it and don’t acknowledge it.
Joe-
Great stuff, especially for the season of Epiphany. If there is anything we can know about systems and principalities and the powers that be, it is that they are all as fallen as each one of us is. And so we put our hope in the one true King and we pledge our allegiance to Him.
-Kester
p.s. by the by, I’d love to get your feedback on my most recent blog
Joe,
Of course I agree with you on the last part. BUT, I must asked, since this nation was founded on Christian principles and many of the men that signed the Declaration of Independence were men of God why then do you believe we are no longer a nation of God? For me, I would like to think that is what I try to ensure is still intact for my children, A nation that still holds Christian values as a goal. I desire to see this nation stand for what I believe was the intentions of our founders. Am I crazy? Am I so out of touch that I don’t get it? I hope not. This is the main reason I find myself siding with conservatism. I desire to see this nation as a Christian nation. And to me seeing men and women who want Abortion legal and marriage not only between a man and a woman on one side of the political spectrum I cannot help but to side with the other. Now, I must ask, how can a man of God or woman of God side with them either? To me it goes against principles of God. Now as I get more involved in the political scene, I see that there are areas in which I do not agree with Republicans as well but, I do not hear the majority of them siding with the pro-abortion agenda. Help a brother out here, in the short of it, Why are you leaning left?
I can appreciate that Abortion and Gay marriage are ‘deal-breaking’ issues for a lot of people politically. The temptation for me in responding to your comment is to ask if the sanctity of life is so important what about the death penalty, which Democrats traditionally oppose and Republicans traditionally support. Or if gay marriage is such a threat, why don’t we outlaw no-fault divorces and enforce mandatory counseling for couples in trouble. And not so long ago this would have been the tactic I would have taken. But I have had a revelation over the past three years regarding these issues and my faith that might be worth thinking about.
At it’s very best, even at it’s most unrealistic idealized best, America is nothing more than a modern day ‘Babylon’ when compared to the Kingdom of God. There is nothing we can legislate or do to make it even closely resemble the Kingdom of God. Now I think it happens to be the very best Babylon, and I love it very much and wish for it to be a just and free place, but it’s still Babylon. When I came to grips with that then I was allowed to let America off the Christian righteousness hook so to speak. I was able to see that both political parties have good and flawed ideological beliefs. I started to understand that the interests of America are ultimately tied to the interests of it’s own people irregardless of the needs of other nations in the world. And elected politicians are elected to serve their constituencies, not God. If we were to be a nation defined by the Christian principles laid out by Christ (as some assume our fore-fathers intended) then our primary function would be to worship God and give to other nations as we give to ourselves. As it stands we give 1.6% of our discretionary budget to countries in need (the biggest beneficiary being Israel and our aid is in the form of weapons).
Ultimately I think each believer should weigh all sorts of factors when they walk into the voting booth. Using only two issues (as many Christians do) to constrain themselves in choosing a representative makes it too easy for politicians or a party to co-opt those individuals on false promises of being a party ‘of God’. Neither party is capable of delivering the righteousness of God, and any group the purports to be able to commits blasphemy. And a church that exalts one party as the only representatives of God is guilty of the same.
All that said I do believe that God can, if given the opportunity, work through flawed systems and individuals. And so I remain engaged and optimistic in the process. I try to discern which politicians might be most open to passing legislation that might resemble some of the compassion, grace, and advocacy I see Jesus exhibit in Scripture. Even as the legislation or policies aren’t done explicitly in the name of God. Which I actually would prefer.
So, let’s all add these to our reading lists, a century after their initial printings, and read them side-by-side: Lipscomb’s “Civil Govenment,” and Rauschenbusch’s “Christianity and the Social Crisis.” The latter was recently re-released with “in the 21st Century” added to its title, and includes commentary edited by the author’s great-grandson.
For now, I’ll take Carville’s famous words over Rove’a agenda: “It’s the economy . . .”
LET’S GO GIANTS — — !!!!!!!
Mr. J-wild,
What about the death penalty, you ask? And I ask, What about it?
You are right that Democrats traditionally oppose and Republicans traditionally support, but to compare the two issues (abortion and capital punishment) is intellectually dishonest, in my opinion.
Over 1.2 million INNOCENT lives were lost to abortion in 2007. That’s 1,200,000. And how many people were executed after Trial By Jury last year??? 42. Forty two thieving, murderous child rapists, cannibals and cop-killers!
Mr. J-Wild, if we were politicians sitting opposite sides of the isle, I would gladly trade you capital punishment for abortion. If there is nothing we can do from the legislature, then why do we legislate? Is it your opinion that morality cannot be legislated?
To this point, one party is better known for opposing abortion. There are a myriad of other issues that would cause me to vote “right”, but this one issue is enough for me.
Mr. Holland, I don’t know you but I agree with you wholeheartedly.
And Joe, What about The Very “Right” Reverend Hays?
The first thing that popped into my head while reading all this was, Saul. If you remember in the Old Testament, God never appointed a king until the Israelites begged for one. They saw all the other nations with their kings and decided that they needed one, as well. So, God obliged. Those that have read through this part of the Bible, about Saul and David and that kings that followed, I think understand that this was a lesson that God was teaching. Following God is not a political platform to stand upon to rule a country. Following God is a way of life that each man/woman has to choose on their own. If Jesus wanted Christianity pressed down upon everyone, he would have called 10,000 angels and shown his awesome power. But he didn’t do this.
I would love for the President of the United States to be a devoted Christian and pray and meditate on God’s plan for him/her when making decisions that affect an entire nation. But Christianity is not a political platform to stand on.
Personally, I hate the whole idea of political parties. Rarely does someone agree wholeheartedly with the stance of Republicans or Democrats but their association forces those beliefs into their identity. Shouldn’t we be picking someone based on the content of their character and their willingness to strive for what’s best for our country and stop worrying so much about party affiliation. Might it be this party affiliation idea that has gotten us to this point. The point being a choice between the lesser of two evils is all we have for the “most powerful office in the world.”
Side-note: Look at the middle-east countries that base themselves completely on Islam. It doesn’t seem to be working for everybody.
I think part of the point of Joe’s post is that the kingdom of God is more than about political and “moral” agendas put forth by politicians. Personally, I think it’s irresponsible of us to elect a leader on the basis of only one political issue. Sometimes I think that if you took the same candidates with the same platforms and scrambled what their party affiliations were (i.e., if you told people Obama were Republican and McCain were a democrat), you would see shifts in voting based just on their party affiliation — and I think that’s irresponsible of us.
And since the issue of pro-choice/pro-life has come up: I can understand if the issue of abortion is one you are passionate about, then you would vote based on a candidate that addresses this on their platform. However, I would imagine that if this were the case, you would also support candidates based on things like their views on healthcare, education, economic and race disparities, etc…things that directly impact women who choose not to have abortions and the children who are subsequently born.
I’m glad to read your post, Joe. I’m feeling a little disenchanted myself with the presidential race this year, and I’m struggling with that. I want to care more, and I want to spend the time needed to listen and research and ferret out who I believe will be the best candidate for the job. Then I hear them debating and covering their tracks or trying to speak truth that gets muddled and clouded. I’m having a hard time with all of that.
I don’t believe it’s possible for us to become a “Christian nation” in the sense that we’ll achieve this utopia of majority thought that follows God’s Will. I don’t actually believe that’s what the forefathers of our country intended, either. We re-define words sometimes to suit our current society, and the forefathers were looking for religious freedom, not Christian rule. They sat around the tea houses and workplaces speaking disgruntled words about the government systems and how faith was intricately tied to it. Then they finally got fed up and left because the government was telling them what to think morally and religiously, and they founded a country designed to afford freedom of thought to all people in it’s borders. They wanted people to be good and choose the right things, not be forced to do them as empty rituals. I think we forget that and try to depend on the crutch of thinking that if we were a “Christian nation” life would be better.
It was always about freedom (for a variety of reasons), and we were blessed by the fact that many of them seemed to faithful followers of God. So, that good thinking affected their decision-making, and we have benefited from it. I’d like to try to live my post-modern life in the same vein. As much as I would love to be able to participate in making laws that put an end to certain immoral behaviors, those laws won’t change the hearts of the people. . .and their hearts are what matter most.
I completely agree with you Zeb. Abortion is a travesty, it’s sin, and like you I believe it is so because it is taking life. But guilt or innocence has nothing to do with it.
Capital punishment has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with upholding an eye for an eye moral code that Jesus implores us to let go of. If we fight against abortion because abortion ends life, then we too must fight against the taking of ALL life not just the life of the unborn.
We do create legislation based on moral principles, but no legislation can create Godly righteousness. Being good is still a far cry from being Holy.
RM - Great point.
True, JW… And Joe, despite my diatribe, I am disenchanted with it all as well… but those three little words (I lean left) just got a couple of your conservative cohorts goin’.
Philip hits the nail on the head… Thanks.
Excellent post. No idea who I will vote for, if I will even cast one this year, but agree with the sentiment of true kingdom authority. Well said.
Long time reader…first time poster…
Regarding the conversation between J-Wild and Zeb: If you are going to compare numbers killed by abortion to those killed by the death penalty, don’t we also have to compare the immense numbers killed in Iraq. Yes, there were some bad people killed but the great overwhelming majority were people who’s only sin was that they were born in the wrong country. There is no such thing as a ‘Smart Bomb’. If you are anywhere near it when it is dropped, you die. There was no ‘Shock and Awe’ campaign to start the war, there was simply a mass wave of killings.
I was brought up Catholic, but have never been able to understand why a person of religion would support a Republican party that could go to war over a resource such as oil, or a government that refuses to even admit damages that we are doing to ‘God’s great earth’. Isn’t that entirely contrary to what Jesus teaches us to do?
I do believe that abortion is horrible, but how many lives has our current president directly saved because of his beliefs? Maybe 10? On the flip side, how many have been lives have been lost because of our presence in Iraq. I have to think this number is well over 100,000…maybe even 10 times that many…
I guess I think that sometimes it is easy for a right-wing politician to ride the company line knowing he is guaranteed a large percentage of votes just based upon 1-2 issues. But where is the outcry from the religious right when it comes to war? What don’t I understand….